IGF055 In Good Faith with Sister Trish Doan: Engineer, Restaurateur, Immigration Professional

Sister Rejane  
This is In Good Faith, a conversation about living faith in everyday life. I'm Sister Rejane of A Nun's Life Ministry. Our guest today is sister Trish Doan, a sister of St. Joseph of Orange, who currently lives in Los Angeles, California, and is working on her master's degree in theology. Her life began in Vietnam during a time of war, upheaval and unrest. Sister Trish left Vietnam at the approximate age of 12. She went to school and over the years had several different work experiences in engineering, in her family's restaurant, and in US Immigration Services. And yet, she found herself seeking more in this life beyond just work. It was her family's courage, persistence and faith that provided the soil that allowed Sister Trish's religious vocation to grow. Beginning the journey of discernment with spiritual direction from CSJs of Orange, she entered the Carmelites in Germantown, New York, only to find the CSJs of Orange were better suited to her gifts and talents. Today, we want to talk about the intersection of faith, family, culture and community in her life. This podcast is part one of two, focusing on her vocation story. Trish, it's wonderful to have you here on A Nun's Life and In Good Faith podcast today. Welcome.

Sister Trish  
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I am very grateful to have this conversation. I appreciate the invitation to be part of this conversation.

Sister Rejane  
Thank you. And Trish, I always like to share with the audience that, you know, you and I have met before, out in Orange, California. We were at a Giving Voice retreat, which is for younger women religious. And one of the best memories--I'm actually thankful, working with you, Trish--was you went grocery shopping with me, and I--being from the Midwest, am more into like vegetables than fruit. And I so appreciated being out in California in a temperate climate, you have that abundance of fruits, and you pushed me to purchase a lot more fruits.

Sister Trish  
[laughter] I remember.

Sister Rejane  
Remember that?? And people loved it. And I just had to have my mind expanded, that there are many different parts of the world, and places and climates--what's abundance for food. And so thank you. I just have to say I've always appreciated that.

Sister Trish  
Yeah, I remember that experience. And I appreciate it--and I am grateful that you allowed me to help you. I remember that one at that shopping trip, I didn't know how to pick out pineapple. And so I had to ask the grocery man there, and then he showed me how--he showed us how.

Sister Rejane  
Yes, and I learned too, the pineapple: pull out a stock. If it comes out easily, it's ripe. Yes.

Sister Trish  
Yeah. [laughter]

Sister Rejane  
That was such a good learning experience. So you are a sister of St. Joseph of Orange, out in California. And I also want to congratulate you--I mean, I know it's two years now, but you've made your first vows and you are a temporary professed, and I just congratulate you because I know it's been quite a journey of discernment.

Sister Trish  
Yes, thank you. It's been a long road.

Sister Rejane  
Yes.

Sister Trish  
Since 2008.

Sister Rejane  
Okay.

Sister Trish  
And I made vows in 2020. So it's been quite a journey.

Sister Rejane  
That is a journey. When did you first meet the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange?

Sister Trish  
I saw the convent. But I never thought that any sisters still lived at the convent--that was in 1992--because I did not see any sisters in habits at all. So, in 2005, when my friend--my childhood friend from Vietnam, she is a religious sister in Vietnam--she was sent over here for a mission. So she came and stayed with me for two weeks. She did not have any relative here. So she asked if I could find a religious community where she can just stay and also learn English. And at that time, I said, "Yeah, I think there's a convent near my house, near here, but there's no sisters there." So I said, "Okay, I will look that up for you." So in mid-2005, I went back to Vietnam, and I came to her community and stayed at her motherhouse in Hue. So I went there, and her sisters asked me about her. And I said, "Yeah, she's doing okay, but she misses Vietnam. She wants to go back to Vietnam. And she had asked me to see if I know any religious community, a convent, so that she can come and stay and go to Mass and also be with the sisters and learn English." So one of the old sisters, her former superior, told me this, "Trish, we have an American nun that came and stayed with us, and she left her contact number here. Let me go and get it for you." And I said to myself, "She doesn't know what she's talking about. Because the US is big! [laughter]" I mean, like California alone, that is as big as Vietnam. So she came back with an index card. And she gave me the index card. And I looked at that, and I said, "Oh, my gosh, this is in Orange."

Sister Rejane  
Wow!

Sister Trish  
This is in California. So I said "Okay, let me write it down." She said "No, no, just take the whole card with you." And I took it with me, and I have it here. And so I came back, and I called the sister, and her name is Sister Rosemarie Redding. I called her up. And I said to her, "Sister, my name is Trish. I got your phone number from Vietnam. And I understand that you stayed there for a couple of days when you were in Vietnam. And may I come in and see you?" And she said sure. I think she was happy because I got her information, her contact number, from Vietnam. And she had a fond memory of that trip. So I came to the motherhouse. And that is the convent that I knew in 1992. And I said, "I didn't know that nuns still lived here."

Sister Rejane  
Wow.

Sister Trish  
So I came in--the receptionist let me in. And I still remember all of this. I can picture it in my in my head right now. And I just sat, and then Lupe [the receptionist] told me, "Sister Rosemarie is expecting you. She will be down in shortly." So I sat there and there's a petite, not too old, nun--person, woman--walking. And she came and said, "Hi. You must be Trish." And I said yes. And she said, "I am Sister Rosemary Redding." And I said, "Hi, Sister." And at that moment I said to myself, "She's not in her habit. And she's a nun." So that was my first encounter with American nuns without a habit.

Sister Rejane  
Okay. So are you saying like in in Vietnam, all the sisters had habits?

Sister Trish  
Yes.

Sister Rejane  
Okay.

Sister Trish  
All the sisters have habits, and they treasure, or value, the habit, and so do I. I value the habit, but that's another story. The habit has a different meaning for us, or at least for me, because when I was in Vietnam, after 1975--after the fall of Saigon, and after the North government took over the south of Vietnam--the religious, especially Christian, particularly the Catholic--were persecuted. Priests were put in prisons, and all the seminaries--major or minor--were closed. And a lot of the sisters at their missions were sent home. And they took over schools, hospitals--the sisters' work all closed down, and they asked the sisters to go home and join their family, and the sisters refused to go home. So they would stay at their community. And the only thing that they could not strip the sisters of, or the religious, was their habit. So the habit, or the garment, has a different meaning for me and for them because it's the sign of faithfulness, a sign of our faith, our Catholic faith, and our faithfulness to our religion.

Sister Rejane  

And also, it's--like you said--something that the government could not take away: that sign of faithfulness to God in light of losing their life ministry. But still, that relationship with God was central to their lives, and they wanted to witness to that, to the people, right?

Sister Trish  

Yes, that's correct. So I had that image in my head: to see a sister with the garment or with the habit on. And I did not have any information about Vatican II at the time, or whatever has happened in the US or outside of Vietnam because Vietnam was still at war.

Sister Rejane  
Sure, sure. So that was coming from your specific country. And the value and the symbolic representation of the Catholic Church was still alive, and the Catholic faith was alive under persecution.

Sister Trish  
Yes, definitely. I didn't even know about the vow of poverty or obedience or other things, you know, just only that the habit is the sign of witness to own faith.

Sister Rejane  
Wow. Okay, well, I'm going to fast forward just to find out what are you doing right now? We know that in 2020 you made your first vows. What are you doing since you made vows?

Sister Trish  
Well, we all know it's COVID. So everything was locked down or limited in terms of mobility. So I made vows in September 2020. And after that, there was uncertainty about the future and how I would do my ministry, so my mentor, Sister Maryanne, approached me and said, "Trish, how about we talk about your ministry and your education?" Because I have no background in theology at all. My background and my undergrad was engineering, and how am I going to do ministry? If I work in a parish setting, theology is required. I did have some training during my candidacy and also my novitiate. So Sister Maryanne said, "Okay, let's see if we can get you to go to school." And because we had talked about my desire to study theology, especially Asian theology, she said, "Well, it's a good time. So let's try to see if you can go to school and enroll this coming spring." So that's where I started my application. And I started my theology study. And I have been in school since then.

Sister Rejane  
So prior to entering the CSJs, was your entire career in engineering?

Sister Trish  
I also worked in a family business, a restaurant. I said to myself, "You know, I feel this call, but I don't think I can respond, because there's a responsibility. I feel responsible for my sisters. I cannot just leave them. I feel the obligation and the responsibility for my family. So I cannot just leave them, and then just pursue whatever I feel called for." I think it's part of our culture also. And so I kept making retreats, considering the thought of entering the community more, because I found myself searching for communities on the internet. It wasn't constantly, but from time to time that pulled me back. I didn't know why I searched for religious community. And then, not until like, in 2010, when my sisters and I decided--my parents had aged dramatically--and we decided that she cannot run the business by herself. It's not that we are not doing well, but there's a lot of work. And I had already started working at the immigration agency. So I had two jobs: the daytime working for the government, and then the evening time and the weekend working at the restaurant. So we decided to close out the restaurant. And at that time, I felt I had more freedom. But I still didn't think that I wanted to go into religious life because now I was working for the government. I was very stable. I loved what I was doing. So the thought of entering the religious community was wavering.

Sister Rejane  
You had inner conflict, right?

Sister Trish  
Yes. When I was working at the restaurant, people would come and talk to me. Our family had a tragedy: my sister, my oldest sister, took her own life. So that was my own journey. And when people came to the restaurant, they shared their struggles. I shared with them mine, and how I was dealing with my sister's death. I don't know! People just came and talked to me. So I thought maybe I needed to take some kind of training. And I told the people, my customers, "I am not trained. But I can share with you my personal journey. And this is how I process this. This is how I deal with my faith." I would pray with them and give them prayer--Memorare prayer--and then say, 'Pray with Mary. And she will help guide us through this." We Vietnamese have such devotion, strong devotion, for Mary. So when I realized that I said, "Well, I want to go and take spiritual direction. So I can be trained--first of all for me, and then after that I can help other people with their personal prayer life." So I called Sister Rosemary up again. Sister Rosemary, she's this wonderful woman. She has never, never said no to me. I mean, never. I would need her help to help me correct English, because I helped the sisters in Vietnam with grant writing. And I would call her and say, "Sister, can I just come by for you to look at the English and just make grammar corrections for me?" She would do that. She never said no. So I called her up. And I said, "Sister Rosemary, I'm thinking about taking classes at LMU, but auditing, in spiritual direction." She said, "Good Trish, I think is a wonderful idea. But I think that if you audit, you're going to do all the work anyway, so why not take the credit?" I said, "Yeah, but I don't know if I'm gonna go with a full degree." She said, "Well, we do have a program here at the CSD. You know, our sisters teach spiritual direction, so you may want to check it out." And I say, "Okay, I'll do that." So that's how I got more connected with the sisters. But before that, I told her that I wanted to do a private retreat. And she was saying, "Okay, you can come by, and there's a sister here." So she became my spiritual director. So that's how it began in 2010. And then started progressing.

Sister Rejane  
We will pause for a brief break. As Sister Trish acknowledged her own inner struggle after her sister's death, I want to take this moment and recognize that many people struggle with thoughts of suicide and need mental health support. If you or someone you know is expressing suicidal thoughts, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988 for assistance and access to resources. We will be right back.

Welcome back. You are here with Sister Rejane of A Nun's Life Ministry and my guest, Sister Trish Doan. Sister Trish is a member of the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange in California. You can listen to this episode, and all the episodes of In Good Faith podcast, on all the major podcast platforms. Stay tuned for a second episode with Sister Trish, which will focus on her journey from Vietnam to the United States. You ended up entering with the Carmelites out in Germantown, New York, is that correct?

Sister Trish  

Germantown, New York. Yes.

Sister Rejane

You went all the way across the country, huh?

Sister Trish  
Yeah. So I came to see Sister Cecilia for the spiritual direction program. And she said, "Well, there's a requirement for that program, which is everybody enrolled in that program has to have two years of spiritual direction first." But since I had been going to retreats and spiritual direction, I only needed one year. So started going regularly with her. So in the course of my spiritual direction, I asked her the question. I said, "What is the difference between single life and religious life? Because I'm happy now. I am not thinking about marrying. And I'm happy with my current job, my career. And I feel called to do mission work, or to help out the poor, and to work with the sisters in Vietnam. So there’s no need for me to go into religious life. Right?" And she said, "Yeah." "And so what is the difference?" She said, "Well, in religious life, we have a community life, and also a prayer life. And we live out our vows. For single life, you know, you still have a call to do the work for the poor and minister." And she said, "So why you ask?" I said, "Well, I just think that I don't need to go into religious life." And she said, "Do you think that you have a call?" And I said, "I don't know." So I didn't tell her the truth, that I kept looking up religious communities. I just thought I was curious, but I didn't know that maybe God was calling me.

Sister Rejane  
Sure.

Sister Trish  
You know, through my actions. I wasn't conscious of it. So when I said, "I don't know," she said, "Well, Trish, to know if you have a call or not, you need to discern." So she gave me one example. And I thought it was very practical. I cracked up. She said, "Trish, it's just like you want to be married. When you want to be married, and you are not dating any guy, how are you going to get married?" [laughter]

Sister Rejane  
Good point. [laughter]

Sister Trish  
Good point! I laughed and I said, "That's true." So she said, "Well, if you don't know if you have a call to religious life or not, you have to discern. You have to discern to find out if God is really calling you to that life or not. If God is not calling you, you're gonna be at peace. And then you can just do whatever you want to do. Or else you will still have that question in the back of your mind. Always." Like when I'm 70, "I would say, "Geez, I should have gone that way."

Sister Rejane  
Yeah, not have the regret.

Sister Trish  
Yeah. So I said, "Well, that's fair." So I started. She asked, "So, habit or no habit?" I didn't know the term. "It's a garment." And I said, "Oh, yes, of course, with the habit." So she said, "Well pick a community and call. I mean call, okay?"

Sister Rejane  
Like a phone call.

Sister Trish  
Yeah, "Call them up. And please call during the business hours." [laughter] You know? So I looked up three communities--not one, but three.

Sister Rejane  
Okay.

Sister Trish  
So I called up three communities, and the Carmelite Sisters for the Aged and Infirm was one of them. They had habits. So the SOLT Sisters, the Little Sister of the Poor, and the Carmelite Sisters. So I called and then the Carmelite Sisters called me back. So I did do my discernment with the Little Sisters of the Poor, with the SOLT Sisters, and the Carmelites, but then I felt that maybe God called me to the Carmelites. And I knew nothing about the Carmelite spirituality. Not until I came there.

Sister Rejane  
How did it go, when you were in with the Carmelites? What were some of your insights from your time there?

Sister Trish  
When I was there, I loved the prayer life. I loved the structure. Because I was new to religious life, I don't know what to do, so the structures helped. I loved the prayer, the morning, the solitude time, and the prayer time with the community. The ministry, when I was there to visit them, I felt that it was not right for me. But then I thought that maybe I could get used to it. And I just thought that God would help me. And at that time, I think I felt kind of like arrogant a little bit. Because I thought I could do anything with God's help, and God would help me through. And especially because this was a good cause. You know, going into religious life is a good thing to do. And God would help. So I would go in and I struggled so much with the ministry because of my background. I have no background in healthcare, in medical, at all. And I didn't understand the elderly. I have no background in that at all. So I struggled internally. I wanted to be in in that ministry because I think it's so needed with the population, and not a lot of people choose to go into that ministry. And for me just to stay in that ministry, I thought was a good cause. You know, I idealized and romanticized the ministry and saw the good I could do. I struggled, and I didn't realize that. So it was a process for me to know that God did not put me in some place for me to really struggle. And I really went into discernment. And I said, "If I live in religious life and struggle and am unhappy for a number of years, I can make it to my final vows--but what happens after the final vows?" And I saw other sisters so unhappy. They were so unhappy with the ministry, but it seemed like they were stuck. So I think to myself, then I would not be a witness to the lay people who work there, or I would not do any good for the elderly. Because I see the people who work there--like the nurses, the CNAs, the activities people--they loved the elderly. I mean like they genuinely loved them. And I said, "I want that." But I couldn't. I was afraid to break the elderly hands, even like to put lotion on them. I said, "I cannot live like this. But I'm still called to religious life." And I asked myself, "What is there to keep me in this religious community? It's because of the garment. Because of the habit." I value the habit to this day, the religious garment, because I think that is a simple life. I don't need to think about what I would wear. And it's also a sign of witness. You know, for me, it's a sign of my faith. But if I remain in the religious life, and am miserable at my ministry, at my job, what good does it do to the people who I am ministering to?

Sister Rejane  
So you recognized you need that joy, that happiness.

Sister Trish  
Yes. Yes.

Sister Rejane  
That is really critical to the call, to live it well--to live the life well.

Sister Trish  
Yes.

Sister Rejane  
Even more valuable than the habit, in a way, for you.

Sister Trish  
Yes. So during that time, I felt really sad when I talked to different spiritual directors. I was in Framingham, Massachusetts. So there was a Jesuit would come and say Mass, and then once a month, he would hear confession and also do spiritual direction. So I talked to him. I mean, just three months in. And he said, "Trish, I don't think you are called here." I got so mad at him. I said, "How can you say that? You just know me only a few hours." But he said, "I don't think this is for you." And I was so mad at him, like inside, and I said, "How can you say that? You know, I feel called." But maybe God, the Holy Spirit, was working through the spiritual director.

Sister Rejane  
Sure.

Sister Trish  
So I value the spiritual director's insight, or whatever that is. I was so sad when I realized that I was probably gonna leave the Carmelite Sisters. I was so sad. But I still felt called to religious life. And I said, "You know, either with the habit or with the ministry." With the ministry, I do the ministry, like eight hours a day. So if I don't like what I do, and I'm not witnessing through what I do, or am happy in my ministry, then what good does the habit do for me? I might end up leaving the whole thing, leaving the religious life. Right? But I still felt called to religious life. So I had to make a decision. And I went through the process of entering the community--I know is tedious.

Sister Rejane  
Yes.

Sister Trish  
So I said to God, "Look, God, I'm gonna make a deal with you here. I'm gonna do what I need to do, and you need to do what you need to do. If you really want me to be in religious life, then you need to make things happen. I will do whatever the process is asked of me to do. And you need to show me that if you really want me to be in religious life, then you need to make things happen for me." And he did. He kept his word.

Sister Rejane  
We are going to take a moment for a brief break. This is In Good Faith, a program of A Nun's Life Ministry. We want to thank our sponsors and individual donors like you, whose support makes the In Good Faith program possible. Please visit anunslife.org to make a donation or to become a sponsor of the ministry. We will be right back.

Welcome back. You are here with Sister Rejane of A Nun's Life Ministry and my guest, Sister Trish Doan. Sister Trish is a member of the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange in California. You can listen to this episode, and all the episodes of In Good Faith podcast, on the website at anunslife.org and on all the major platforms where you get your podcasts. We also want to thank you, our listeners. We would love to hear your thoughts about the podcast! Just leave us a voicemail at 913-214-6087. Thank you so much. What happened? How did it work?

Sister Trish  
Well, I left the Carmelites really sad, but at peace. I went in and I told the council who oversee formation. I said, "Sister Patricia, I don't think I'm gonna stay." She was really sad also. And she said, "What can we do to help you?" And I said, "There's nothing that you can do. You have been very generous, and very kind and very good. And there's nothing here that is wrong. It's just me." I discovered my gift. I thought that, you know, I would just do whatever needs to be done, but no, God gives each one of us gifts, our gifts. And God wants us to grow, to benefit other people from our gift.  And I think that maybe I could do something that needs to be done. But that was not God's gift for me. So I started to say, "Okay, I am gonna leave and look at other communities." I know the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange. I love the ministry.

Sister Rejane  
And you'd come to know Sister Rosemarie and Sister Cecilia, right?

Sister Trish  
Yes. And I came I came to their community all the time. My friend, the sister, was sent here for her mission, but then went back to Vietnam. And then they sent her back here for education. So she would ask for room and board at the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange. So I would come and visit the sisters and have dinner and Sunday, go to Mass, and then they would invite us to come for Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas. They have brunches. So after Mass, we would just go and then have lunch with all of the sisters. And I see how joyful they are, and their hospitality. But I mean like really, they're happy, they're hospitable. And just the spirit--they're very generous. Even now I still see that. We are very generous. So I know them, and I know that kind of work. But the only thing they don't have is a habit, the religious garment. So after the Carmelite Sisters, after I entered and after I left, I realized that, you know, maybe I would discern with the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange. I did contact Sister Mary Liz, she was a vocation director at the time, and told her that I would like to see discern with Orange. And that's when the process began. And the reason why I know God wants me to be here, in California, and enter with the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange--remember I made a deal with God?

Sister Rejane  
Yes.

Sister Trish  
So, Sister Mary Liz asked me to find a job. I said, "Sister, I have already given up my career once. So this is serious, I am serious about this. I'm not not serious, because who would give up their career?" Remember, I'm still arrogant in a way, you know. [laughter] So, she said, "Well, Trish, you just have to find a job. And then continue discerning with us." And I know that to discern, we have to discern between two goods. So she's asking me, and I also promised God that I'm going to follow the process. So I followed the process: whatever the vocation director asks me to do--which is, I think, reasonable. Not crazy. She did not tell me to go and jump off a bridge. She just told me to go and find a job. Right? So I had to look for a job. And guess what? I got my job back with the immigration agency. That's where I worked in LA. So that's where I worked with the unaccompanied minors. And that's where I processed green cards also. And even better, I had a direct experience and service to the people. Before I just only did paperwork. So this was actually a better job. And it was my opportunity to move up in the agency--it was wide open. I interviewed for everywhere: in DC, in San Francisco, in Maryland. I mean, like, everywhere. But I got my job in LA.

Sister Rejane  
Which is close to home and close to the community.

Sister Trish  
Yes, because I told God, "If you really want me to discern, if this is where you want me to be, then I will get a job either in San Bernardino, LA, or in Laguna Niguel--close enough for me to stay in California and discern with the Sisters. I cannot be in Washington, DC and discern with the Orange, because that's too far apart." So I got a call from the director, an email saying, "Trish, we want you to give us references, and come in and set up the background check and all that." So that's when I got the job. And I knew that God kept his end of the bargain. So during that time, I still worked at the immigration office in downtown LA and discerned with the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange. And when it was time for me to give up my career the second time, it was harder. But I knew that God held up his end of the bargain. I had to hold up mine. But, you know, when I went back to work the second time with the immigration office, I had a sense of ministry. Before that, I just thought about career. But the second time when I came back to California and worked in downtown LA, I had a sense of ministry. I still had to follow the law, to process people--but treat people with dignity and not a sense of like, I am giving you the benefit, or you are the criminal. But even with the immigration agency, they taught us that too: to treat people as a person. We need to treat people as human. So anyway, I had to give up my job in 2018.

Sister Rejane  
Is this when you were entering?

Sister Trish  
When I had to do my novitiate.

Sister Rejane  
Okay.

Sister Trish  
But God is really funny. My office director offered me a part-time job to work in LA. That's never happened before. And I said, "God, what are you doing?" Because my other friends wanted to work part time and it was shot down. So no, but never, we cannot work part-time; you had to work full time, or you don't work at all. And when I told them I had to go back to school, they said, "Well, you don't have to quit, you can work part-time, you know?" And I said, "I don't think I can do that." And my friend convinced me to go back and talk to the sisters. And when I went home and had dinner with the sisters in my community, "I said, Sister, my director said that I can work part-time." And they said, "No. You cannot work. You cannot work part-time because you have to start your formation, and your novitiate."

Sister Rejane  
Really dedicate your life to the study of the life. And so it was like a test, like God was testing you. Like, "Are you sure?"

Sister Trish  
Yeah. Are you sure? And then this position opened up, and my friend kept telling me to apply. When I got to that new office, this opportunity opened up. But I know that it's either religious life, or not religious life. So God had opened up a way for me. And God held up his end of the deal. And I had to hold my end of the deal. But not only that, I still felt called to the religious life. But this moment, you know, there's moments in life--because we're human. But always go back to the original desire. That's what I remember: always go back to the original desire, that, "Why am I here in the first place?" Because God has a plan for me. And I have the desire to serve people in the religious capacity, not as a layperson, but as a religious person. So when I struggle, I go back.

Sister Rejane  
To that original call.

Sister Trish  
Yes. And that is in discernment also. So when you struggle, you know, don't make any changes during all that turmoil, all that struggle, but wait until you are at peace, and then make the decision. And when I am at peace, I know that this is where God wanted me to be. But not in that turmoil, because I cannot listen then.

Sister Rejane  
And here's my final question: at this point are you, in that struggle and in that call, still finding the joy and the happiness that you recognize is so important to this life?

Sister Trish  
Yes, I think so. I mean, like there's this discrimination among religious, the one with a habit or the one without a habit. I see that. I mean, because my friends, they are in a habit, and I'm not. So that's it's like an internal struggle.

Sister Rejane  
You still kind of have that internal struggle?

Sister Trish  
Well, because I'm human, I want to be treated nicely, I want to be treated equally. You know, so we went to Mass, Vietnamese Mass. And then I was the one that driving the sisters. We entered the church. Other people would come and ask the sisters to go up, and make room for them. And then they left me behind. So my sister friends said, "Oh, she's a sister also." So just recently, at a fundraiser for Catholic Charities, the same thing happened. But I know in my heart that if I am really in this life, I don't need to be recognized because of the outside appearance. And I know there's other people would argue that the habit is about witnessing, and I'm not arguing about that. I told you I valued the religious garment.

Sister Rejane  
Sure.

Sister Trish  
But if I am in religious life with the religious garment and it doesn't bring joy, and it doesn't witness to my call, then what good does it do? So that is the struggle at the moment, that one moment only. But after that, I'm okay. It's just being human, you know? I want to be treated nice, and I want to be treated equally. But after that, I think I'm okay. But for that moment, I have to go back, and I say, "You know, God probably wanted me to be humble, to be a servant."

Sister Rejane  
Yeah, the recognition is not as important as having the that joy in that call in your heart.

Sister Trish  
Yeah. And then the conversation with people, like the conversation with people when they are struggling. And when I talk to them, and the people--like my friends at work, they realize now that I am religious, they can talk to me, but when it comes to my other friends, they cannot talk to them for some reason, I don't know. But they feel that they can be close to me. There's that moment also, that I can connect to people, with people, and they can connect with me. So there's not always this disconnection. There's a moment of that, but there's other moments too, and I don't want to live with the other moments.

Sister Rejane  
Sure. Well, and just in what you said, it kind of comes full circle to back around between 2008, 2010, when you were discerning about spiritual direction, because people were connecting with you at the restaurant. And here you are, you are still within the life. It's like that part of the journey is coming full circle again, and really connecting--and with you going to school, and getting some of the theology too, and just your lived experience brings so much to the table in listening to people. Thank you, Trish, for this time today and sharing that powerful witness of courage and faith and family and culture. Thank you.

Sister Trish  
Thank you very much.

Sister Rejane  
Stay tuned for part two of my conversation with Sister Trish, focusing on her journey from Vietnam to the United States as an unaccompanied minor. In Good Faith is a production of A Nun's Life Ministry, helping people discover and grow in their vocation by engaging questions about God, faith, and religious life. This program is made possible through the grace of God and the support of our sponsors of A Nun's Life Ministry and you, our listeners. Don't forget to call us and leave a message. Tell us what you like, ask a question, or just say hi. Call 913-214-6087 and visit us at anunslife.org. God bless.

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.